I struggled trying to decide whether or not to publish this.
This was not a private ‘conversation,’ but was an open discussion in a Facebook group, for the whole world to see. So I do not believe I am betraying anyone’s confidence or privacy.

So why was it a struggle then?
For one, I don’t want to disparage or discourage anyone.
That is not my intent. My reason for sharing this is to encourage prayer for our friends in the Mainstream…

I do want to illustrate the typical outcome of a Torah discussion with Mainstream Christian pastors.
These discussions tend to not go well.
I fully understand they believe something different than I do, based upon our study of and prayer over scripture.
I do not have a problem with them thinking and believing something different.  To each his own…

However, I do have a problem when there is no scripture used to support their ideas and thoughts and doctrine.  I do have a problem when they resort to insults, instead of having a righteous discussion.
Not because I am offended, because it is not possible to offend me. Having spent twelve years on submarines in the US Navy, my mind is a steel trap.  One of the major forms of entertainment on submarines is trying to get under each other’s skin.  For lack of anything else to do, we tried to make each other angry, usually with little success. Why? Because we were all professionals at dishing it out and taking it…
Offending me is pretty much impossible. I don’t allow other people to have that kind of power over my mind and my emotions.

So what is it about this conversation that bothers me?
First of all, I did not begin this conversation. I was asked a question by one of my previous pastors when I was still in the mainstream church. I served on the board of his church, and consider him a friend.
I do not have a “need” for others to agree with me.  I share what I see in scripture, and use scripture only to support my thoughts.  I do not inject my own opinions or traditions of men into my ideas [at least, I try to make this a constant goal].
I sort of expect the same from others, even though that isn’t typically how it goes…

I’m sharing this interchange to show what happens when scripture is used to support an idea, versus deciding what you believe based upon the status quo and opinions of men.

For those of us who are being called back to Torah, we get it.
Our veils are lifted.
We can share the truth of what we see in scripture with millions and millions of mainstream church folks.
They need our prayers, that they might see the truth in scripture.
But first, they must be unveiled, as is described in
2Corinthians 3:14-17
¹⁴ But their minds were hardened. For up to this very day the same veil remains unlifted at the reading of the ancient covenant, since in Messiah it is passing away. ¹⁵ But to this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart. ¹⁶ But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. ^[e] 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Ruach Adonaiis, there is freedom.

But in the meantime, we are battling this:
2Thessalonians 2:11-12
 For this reason God sends them a delusional force, to lead them to believe what is false,  ¹² so that they may be judged—all those who did not believe the truth but delighted in wickedness.

And we are battling this:
Jeremiah 16:19 [reference to end time gathering and restoration of the House of Israel]
Adonai, my strength, my stronghold,
        my refuge in the day of affliction,
    to You will the nations come
        from the ends of the earth and say:
    “Our fathers have inherited nothing
        but lies, futility and useless things.”

This last phrase about inheriting lies perfectly describes our mainstream churches. Sadly…
In Rev 22:15, Messiah tells us those who “love and practice a lie” will not be part of the Kingdom.

Anyway, here is what happens when we share Torah and truth of scripture with [some, not all] mainstream Christian church leaders:

PASTOR:
So are you suggesting God was wrong when he gave Peter the vision saying to eat it?
ME:
HI [xxxxxx]!! Dude, we should go have coffee some time. It has been too long.
To answer your question, no, God is not wrong.
However, the way this story is typically taught is wrong.
First of all, Peter knows that eating unclean foods is not ok.
His response in Acts 10 verse 14:
But Peter said, “Certainly not, Lord! For never have I eaten anything unholy or unclean.”

If we stop reading at verse 16 (when the sheet is taken away WITHOUT Peter having eaten), then it sounds like God was telling him to eat unclean animals.

However, if we keep reading the story, the vision is explained and revealed to us.
We start to see the reason for the vision in verses 19/20:
19 Now while Peter was mulling over the vision, the Ruach said to him, “Look here, three men are looking for you. 20 But get up, go downstairs, and go with them without hesitating, because I Myself have sent them.”

There is more narrative and some travel, but we see the explanation of the vision in verses 28/29:
He said to them, “You yourselves know that it is not permitted for a Jewish man to associate with a non-Jew or to visit him. Yet God has shown me that I should call no one unholy or unclean. 29 So I came without objection when I was sent for. I ask, then, what is the reason why you sent for me?”

God used a vision of animals to indicate to Peter that no men are unclean.
At that time, the Jews believed that interaction with Gentiles would cause them to be unclean (not true, not in Torah). But it was believed and taught by the Pharisees. You can see proof of this in John 18:28
” Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.”

Peter explains his vision a second time in Acts 10:34-35
34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said, “I truly understand that God is not one to show favoritism, 35 but in every nation the one who fears Him and does what is right is acceptable to Him.

Twice, we get the explanation of the vision.
It was not to change the dietary laws. We are told that the Torah cannot ever be added to or taken away from, which means the dietary laws cannot be changed by man (Peter, Paul, or anyone else).

Deut 4:2
You must not add to the word that I am commanding you or take away from it—in order to keep the mitzvot of Adonai your God that I am commanding you. 

Deut 12:32
“Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.”

But God can change things if he wants, right?
Not according to scripture…

We are told that God does not change His mind, and He is not a liar. 
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man who lies,
or a son of man who changes his mind!

Malachi 3:6 tells us “I am the Lord, I change not…”

We are told in John 1 that Messiah is the word become flesh, and lived among us. Hebrews 13:8 tells us Messiah is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
If He is the word, and He has never changed and never will change, then that means the word has never changed and will never change.

Are we told this elsewhere?
Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

If none of this clicks or makes sense, do we have any other clues that God did not change the dietary laws, allowing us to eat anything?
Yes, of course we do.

Isaiah 66:14-17 speaks of the millennial reign:
The Reign and Indignation of God
14 When you see this, your heart shall rejoice,
And your bones shall flourish like grass;
The hand of the Lord shall be known to His servants,
And His indignation to His enemies.
15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by His sword
The Lord will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the Lord shall be many.
17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.

We see in verse 17 that those, IN THE FUTURE, will be destroyed for eating swine and the flesh of mice (unclean animals).
Acts 10 is consistently taught incorrectly.

PASTOR:
You are interpreting scripture in a way that violates millions of spirit filled Christians have for 2,000 yrs. Doesn’t that seem a bit narcissistic to you?

ME:
No, because I read it from the beginning.
God says things are forever, for all generations, never ending, perpetual.
“Rightly dividing the word” results in God being a liar, which is not possible.
For anything to change would make God a liar – not possible.
Most of what is taught as having changed comes from the writings of Paul. We are warned against this in 2Peter 3:14-18.

Some say Jesus is God, and that He has the authority to change things.
Again, not possible, for several reasons.
He is the word become flesh, and he is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If He has never changed, then the Word has never changed.

John 7:16 _ Messiah tells us that His teachings are not His own, but the One’s who sent Him.
He teaches what the Father taught.

When I began discovering what scripture actually says, instead of what the establishment has been teaching for 2000 years, I had doubts.
I decided to do something I call the red letter challenge.
I took a red letter bible and ONLY read the direct quotes of Messiah.
I took notes.
I then compared what our Savior said, and compared it to what I’ve been taught.
They didn’t match.
That caused me to have to make a choice:
Follow my Messiah.
Or follow the teaching of men.

Matthew 23 tells us what Jesus thinks of the teachings of men.
It is not pretty.

Revelation is not John’s revelation. Chapter 1 tells us it is the Revelation of the Father, given to Messiah, and communicated to John to write down for us by an angel messenger.

We are told specifically not to add to or take away from the book of Revelation.
We are told who the saints are in Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

We are told who the remnant of the church is in Rev 12:17
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There are two criteria in both statements, which we are not allowed to add to or take away from:
1. Keep the commandments of God (not New Testament commands, but the commands of GOD!!!)
2. And have faith and testimony of Messiah.

The church does a great job of teaching about #2.
They have removed criteria #1 from their teachings.

What are the consequences of adding to or taking away from the Revelation?

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

PLAGUES and BEING REMOVED FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE!!!
This is not good.
This is horrific on an unimaginable scale.

In case we are confused, Messiah (direct quote again) tells us who is in the Kingdom and who is not in the Kingdom in Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

IN THE KINGDOM _ those who keep the commandments
NOT IN THE KINGDOM_ those who love and practice a lie.

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

“FEW who find it” – the mainstream church thinks the path is very crowded. This defies what Messiah said. Is He a liar?

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Depart from me, you who practice LAWLESSNESS.

We are told over and over and over again what we are to do.
The mainstream church teaches something other than what God and Jesus teach.
It is very sad.

But I don’t need you to agree with me in order to go have coffee.
Are you up for it? Like I said, it has been too long.
[No response]

ME:
You said this:
“You are interpreting scripture in a way that violates millions of spirit filled Christians have for 2,000 yrs”
I have a choice to make.
I can either read what God and Jesus wrote for us and follow it.
Or I can follow what millions of Christians teach and believe.
I choose Messiah.

PASTOR:
I would say you choose narcissism.

ME:
And that’s the beautiful thing about free will.
I read scripture and obey it. There should be no fault in that, even if you think I’m wrong.  🙂
How about some coffee sometime?
[No response]

Did you actually read the scriptures I shared above?
What do you think about Messiah being angry about people eating pork when He returns?
Do you reject that scripture?

What do you think about Messiah saying “And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.”
That is in the future, when He expects people to still be keeping the Sabbath.
Do you reject the 4th commandment?

It is a sign between God and His people.
Do you not want to be labeled as His?

I understand you believe something else, and that you disagree with my thoughts.
I’m not arguing with you. It isn’t about you or me.
I’m wondering what you think of these scriptures?
Do you reject them?

PASTOR:
I will pass. I learned along time ago that you don’t desire to learn from others. I am pretty busy and I don’t have time to waste. Learning takes real work, it takes listening to others, being humble enough to recognize you cant even read in original language and have not even read or looked at ancient scholarly writings, the early church. Learning involves work and humbleness. Firing views have more to do with lazy work than reality.

ME
I have spent thousands of hours over the last three years studying scripture, including the Hebrew and Greek.
Do you believe all scripture, or just the parts you like?
Telling me I’m narcissistic, or that I’m lazy does not answer these questions.
Do you reject the 4th commandment, or do you not reject the 4th commandment?
Your idea of learning is to swallow false teachings that do not match what our Creator said, and do not match what our Messiah said.
Good luck with that.

ME:
You asked me a question and I answered it using scripture.
You shared no scripture, and decided to insult me instead.
Who made effort and who was lazy?
Who shared the Word of God, and who resorted to childish insults?
Dear Yeahova,
I pray for {Pastor’s name], that you might lift his veil spoken of in 2Corinthians chapter three. I pray he would earnestly seek your understanding through prayer, as You promised in James 1:5-8.
I pray that he would righteously seek out the scriptures, instead of responding with insults and condemnation. I pray he would avoid the fate of Messiah’s words in Matthew 23.
Amen

…And then, he unfriended and blocked me.

Please pray for our mainstream church leaders and congregations.
They are veiled.
They cannot see the truth of scripture, even if we lay it out for them logically and quote from the bible.
When presented with evidence in scripture, they tend to respond without scripture, and sometimes choose insults instead.
Pride, arrogance, and a self imposed authority, all because of a piece of paper hanging in their office [theology degree].

But these people are not our enemy.
They are our fellow man, brothers and sisters of the human race.
Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Do not be discouraged by their responses.
Do not be offended.
Do not be sparked to anger.
Simply pray truth of scripture into their lives.